Does Quran Say Sun Sets in Mud?

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Sun Sets in MUD?
Sun Prostrates Under Throne?
In Quran? Hadeeth? HELP!

 

 

I need help in regards to properly understanding a couple of ahadith. I have been exposed to some anti-Islamic rhetoric, propagated by some Christian fundementalists. My Iman has become a bit weaken by some of their claims regarding two ahadith of the Messenger (salallahu alaihi wasalam).

First Hadith:
Dear Sheik Yusuf:
I am desperate and need someone to help me understand some sayings of prophet Muhammad. I am confused now, because some Arab Christians are criticizing Allah's Book and challenging our prophet's hadeeth (sayings).
Because of all of this, I find my faith is wavering and I don't know what to think anymore. I do need some help to understand and get my faith back. It seems like the Christian Arabs know more about Quran than us non-Arabs. Can you help?

Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (Surah 36.38)
(Tirmidhi, Fitan, 22).

 

Questions: Using this hadith as evidence they claim that we believe the sun revolves around the earth in contradiction to what was found by scientists. They conclude that if this was the truth from God there would be no contradiction.

My question is, are we to conclude from this hadith that the sun revolves around the earth? What is the proper understaning of this hadith? What is the "movement" of the sun as mentioned in this hadith?

Second Hadith:
Abu Dharr said:
I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.
(Sunan Abu Dawud 3991)

Questions: Using this as evidence they claim we believe the sun sets on earth. Again in complete contradiction to modern science. I tryed looking online and I haven't found this hadith quoted by any other than those anti-Islamic websites.

Is this hadith authentic? Is the wording correct? Is this hadith the same as the one quoted above? If this is a legitimate hadith, what is the proper understanding?

Please! Help me. If you can help get proper understanding of these sayings and give proof for what you say, this could help get rid of doubts and I would be closer back to Islam.

ANSWER:
Bismillah Rahman Raheem - Salam alaykum. Thank you for asking and for giving your references to the ahadeeth (plural of hadeeth). This is no surprise to me, since I have been warning Muslims about this for over 12 years now. This is what happens when we don't know our own religion and then start to listen to people who are not guided at all.
Some people have lost their way entirely, aothubillah. And this is because they do not pay attention to what Islam is saying, and go on as though they can make up their own way.
Do be careful about this or you won't even be able to remember how to get back to the deen. May Allah help you, ameen.
You see, whoever visits websites attacking Islam, or reads emails attacking Islam and they are not scholars or students of knowledge, they will be going against some basic principles of Islam.
Namely, the hadeeth of the prophet, peace be upon him, "Whatever leads to haram is also haram".
There is a basic concept in our deen, not to go toward whatever takes people away from the love and remembrance of Allah. You must not go to these websites, answer these emails or share the links and letters with others.
Muslims have sent me links to websites the attack Islam, attack Quran, attack prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, attack shari'ah and even attack Allah. The email says, "These websites attack Islam! Warn everyone you know! Mail to your family and list"
Most Muslims will think it is their duty to forward this email around the Internet, not knowing it is the best way to PROMOTE these websites to make them come up on page 1 of all the search engines, like Google and others.
Now as regards the hadeeths that you sent to me - (and you had no problem promoting this fitnah) - you have to know it was in Arabic and it is an expression very common place at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him.
For sure you do not have to even look to the hadeeth, as this is in the Quran in surah Al Kahaf, chapter 18, verse 86:

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. We [Allah] said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."
http://allahsquran.com/read/verses.php?ch=18

(Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Hami'ah is, according to one of the two views, derived from the word Hama'ah, which means mud. This is like the Ayah:
إِنِّى خَـلِقٌ بَشَرًا مِّن صَلْصَـلٍ مِّنْ حَمَإٍ مَّسْنُونٍ
("I am going to create a man (Adam) from dried clay of altered Hama'h (mud)) ﴿15:28﴾, which means smooth mud, as we have discussed above.)

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&;task=view&id=2704&Itemid=73
This translator inserts the two words [as if] to help us understand how the Arabic is directed in the verse. This implies (as if) setting in a spring of dark, murky water or mud. And if you think about it, someone could go to the next level of stupid and say, "And he found the sound near the people???" And how would that make any sense?
Now take a look at their book - and you will see they do have a huge problem with where water goes and how it collects:


ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
Really? Is that a fact? Do all rivers run into the sea? What about the rivers that run into the lakes? Read about the Great Salt Lake sometime.
And what about the place where all rivers come from and they return again? Where exactly is that?

If you consider the way they are playing with the Quran, ask them about their Bible. Look how they insert brackets and parenthesis and cover very serious messages in their book. They had to insert three words (as was supposed) in their book or else everyone would know the whole concept of Jesus, peace be upon him, being son of God, or God incarnate, or part of a Trinity was all just nonsense they came up with after the Nicea Council three hundred years after Jesus.

Read this from their own book:
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
This is taken from the KJV (King James Version) of 1611 A.D. which was based on a combination of manuscripts available at the time. But the words "as was supposed" were in fact, a translators insertion. No matter how you look at it, the verse makes it clear, the people of Jesus' time, thought he was the son of Joseph (not the son of God). And keep reading to find out who they thought was the SON OF GOD...
And look close to what they have now in the "New International Translation":
23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
And how about this New Century translation? --
23 When Jesus began his ministry, he was about thirty years old. People thought that Jesus was Joseph's son. ??
Joseph was the son[c] of Heli.
OK. How can you imagine people would keep playing around with God's Word?
What about this (as was supposed) insert? And notice if you will, after being caught on it for a few decades, they decided to RETRANSLATE the whole chapter to read: as it was thought, complete with commas instead of (as was supposed).
And read what the last part of the chapter says CLEARLY - Jesus is not the son of God - but, according to verse 38 in their own book - ADAM (not Jesus) IS SON OF GOD:
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Oh, and just for fun, read Footnotes at the bottom of the page regarding so-called "variant readings"

Luke 3:33 Some manuscripts Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni; other manuscripts vary widely

www.SearchForIslam.com and type in key words you need like: "as was supposed" - (use the quote marks) Or click here --> "as was supposed"

(that means: different versions, different manuscripts; different sources; not sure which one is correct because - THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY ORIGINAL).
Here you are, with the one and only Quran, that has no similar book, no different text and NO VARIANT READING. Yet, you are the one reading their trash against Islam, not knowing you are supposed to read your own Quran - learning from them, instead of from imams and sheikhs who have the truth.
OK, let's think of it like this: Someone goes to a 4 star restaurant, goes inside, sits down, asks for something from the menu - most likely he will have a good, wholesome, delicious meal. Right?
But someone else goes into the ally behind the same restaurant, sits down by the garbage bin and asks someone to give him whatever they can, what do you think he will have to eat?
For more on this exact topic visit our search engine and then click away - (you should share these links with others who have lost their way by clicking haram links):

Our prophet, peace be upon him, saw Omar reading something and asked him what it was. Omar said it was from the Torah (Books of Moses). Prophet, peace be upon him, told Omar, "Even if Moses were here right now, he would have to follow me"
My conclusion on this subject of arguing with others about the meaning of Quran (or Bible for that matter), is to learn our own religion, in the original language (Arabic) and sit with true scholars who are dedicated to presenting the real truth of Islam without political, social or personal interests affecting (and infecting) their teachings. We still have such scholars today, athough it is getting harder and harder every day to find them.
We ask Allah to Guide us all back to His Book and not waste time listening to the most unguided people on the planet - the DHALLEEN, ameen.
Jazakallah khair was salam alaykum,
Yusuf Estes

check these videos about the Bible:

www.tubeislam.com/video/3178/ (part 1)
www.tubeislam.com/video/3179/ (part 2)
www.tubeislam.com/video/3180/ (part 3)

 

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Comments   

#11 ann halloway 2014-03-20 00:23
Among the Signs of the Might and Power of Allah are the Night حand the Day
(He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly) (7:54). Allah says here.﴿
(And a sign for them is the night. We withdraw therefrom the day,) meaning, `We take it away from it, so it goes away and the night comes.' Allah says:
(and behold, they are in darkness.) As it says in the Hadith
(When the night comes from here, and the day departs from here, and the sun has set, then the fasting person should break his fast.) This is the apparent meaning of the Ayah. Allah's saying:
(And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing) There are two views over the meaning of the phrase
(on its fixed course for a term (appointed).
#10 NobleSavage 2013-03-19 02:30
There is only ONE GOD!
#9 Owais Mujahid 2012-09-26 05:45
Dear brothers and sisters Assalamu Alaikum ....__As well explained by Sheikh Yousuf Estes, here is a little further explanation to the ahadith mentioned in the question __Visit this link__http://ww w.letmeturnthet ables.com/2012/ 09/weak-hadith- sun-spring-warm -water.html?m=0 __Also explanation to the Verse from the Quran:__http:// www.letmeturnth etables.com/201 1/03/sun-sets-i n-murky-water-a s-per-quran.htm l?m=0__I hope that these links will clarify your doubts and build ur Iman again. Also its futile to think that Quran or ahadith say such a thing that is against the modern well established scientific facts simply because Christians say so and u don't have enough knowledge to refute their claims .... before thinking such a thing u must first gain knowledge about ur religion, then everything will become clear InshaAllah and these evil thoughts won\'t come into your mind and u will be able to refute the lies of the Christians and other Anti-Islamic websites ...... Allah(SWT) and His Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) have told us to gain knowledge in the religion ..... Indeed what religion can be more beautiful and more truthful than the religion of submitting one's will to The Almighty God. This is what Islam is....
#8 sk 2012-01-06 02:55
The place where its course finishes refers to ‘under the throne’, which is a specific description of a place that is beyond people’s knowledge and that represents the end of its daily course; and it is also the place where it stops to rise from the east and rises from the west instead.'
#7 sk 2012-01-06 02:33
People who have no knowledge of their religion are looking to find faults in Islam. Don't listen to them. If they had knowledge of their own book then they would know the meaning of "Son of God"(which meant servant of God). The sun moves around the earth. read the tafsir of 36:38 @ qtafsir.com. Read fatwas online @ islamweb.net
#6 Cassie 2012-01-05 21:46
The sun also orbits the centre of the galaxy...
#5 Cassie 2012-01-05 21:32
....just comfirming that I was reffering to the the first hadeeth given in the question, not the second of course.
#4 Cassie 2012-01-05 21:26
....And the sun running is 'fixed term', is something I related to the fact that the sun not only has a life span, but also in the fact that it has a rotational period. Another point to mention is that the sun will be intially be destroyed on the day of judgement. So has a fixed period in this sense also.
#3 Cassie 2012-01-05 21:17
A salam, most people are aware, even some christians, that the bible has been tampered with and has lead people to the last book, the Quran. However yusef, is the hadith mentioned in the question inauthentic or not? It does not make sense.


As for the hadeeth in context, it is clear that it is pertaining to the event of the sun rising from the west. The Quran has cleraly been preserved,but when we know that ahadeeth has not, so we must be careful.
#2 yusuf 2012-01-04 22:01
EDIT IS IT ALLOWED ANY OF MY SAYING

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